The Sprout

MarshMallo

Commented 35 months ago - 23rd June 2013 - 18:59pm

You have no idea how much this kind of attitude infuriates me. I wrote an article about it (Save Wales From Welsh?) and the comments I got were interesting.

A country's heritage is one of the most important things it has. Saying "Let Welsh die" is completely dismissing this country's history and culture and implying that it should change completely. It's disrespectful and insulting.

The decline in Welsh speakers, I believe, is partly because of the dominance of English. It's very popular and very successful as a language (the second most spoken language in the world after Mandarin), but that doesn't make Welsh is any less important. All languages are important. There is a Welsh settlement in Argentina called Yr Wladfa Gymreig, which was made so the Welsh language could thrive outside of the influence of the English language. Welsh over there is doing very well, although it is slightly different from the Welsh here.

Another reason why young people don't speak more Welsh is the attitude that teachers have. English in Welsh schools is banned outside of English lessons, which is ridiculous. Welsh medium schools are basically saying, "Remember the Welsh Not? That was bad, people should be able to speak what they like. But don't speak English, or you'll get detention." Hypocrisy in schools is obviously going to lead to people not buying into it. Children like to break the rules, and banning English gives them an easy way to do that.

I respect the fact that you have an opinion and you just wanted to share it, but I completely disagree. I just believe that the Welsh language has the right to be spoken. It's the most successful out of the Celtic languages. Once it's gone, a whole branch of dialects will have disappeared. I think that would be a massive shame.

JustNotNormal

Commented 35 months ago - 24th June 2013 - 21:27pm

I mostly agree with the opinions in this article, but we shouldn't let the language die out completely. It is an essentially useless language unless you want to work in a place where you have to speak welsh, but being able to speak another language helps when learning a new language. I think we should do welsh for years 7, 8 and 9 then have the choice to drop it completely rather than doing short or long course GCSE.

National Editor

Commented 35 months ago - 26th June 2013 - 09:50am

CLIConline supports diversity in all languages and cultures, and it's worth us highlighting the links at the bottom of the article, which lead to counter-arguments for the Welsh language and culture. One of our favourites is Elranto (Or, How My Culture Has Been Attacked).

Diolch.

twilightcrazedxxx

Commented 35 months ago - 26th June 2013 - 15:57pm

Actually. You have to speak welsh to get many jobs including the BBC. I dont particularly like the language but I am learning it to be in the bbc (hopefully)

SamuelPatterson

Commented 35 months ago - 29th June 2013 - 00:47am

There had to be at least one article that would cause me to take to my American keyboard and this, currently being in the largest English-speaking country in the world, had to be it.

To say that the Welsh language is not important, to say that it is a waste of money, to say that the Welsh children of today would be better off without it, is to completely laugh at all the centuries that our language has been alive and to dance on the graves of all those who fought war after war, suffocating in the darkness and brutality that is ignorance.

For one to claim that it is irrelevant to them is for one to completely ignore their entire history, for were one to take a look at a history book or speak to one's Welsh teacher, one would find that the language is not just a language, but a way of being, a way of living. It is rich with the songs, the poetry and the lives of thousands and it lives on today.

Not only a beautiful language, it has a beautiful (if not, as mentioned, frightfully bloody) history filled with myths and legends, stories and folklore. Welsh was the language that the early forms of the King Arthur tales were written in as well as many other beautiful stories that, whilst can of course be translated into English or indeed any other language, lose some of their charm, some of their authenticity when that is done.

As for your views about preserving medival culture and languages and countries dying and whatnot, I have this to say: We are not preserving medival culture in order to live in darkened days, but rather to understand our heritage, which contrary to what you may believe, is incredibly important to a person and a country. It is what makes you who you are, from what happened yesterday to you, to what happened 2,000 years ago to your anscestors.

And finally, the Welsh language has been around for far longer than any recognisable form of English, and it is cherished by thousands of people who are very much grateful for its existence, so how dare you, with your arrogance of youth and your apathy towards life sit there and tell me that the Welsh language is not important.

Llywodraeth Cymru // Welsh Government

Commented 35 months ago - 1st July 2013 - 11:43am

Research shows that there are many advantages of being bilingual, including offering an opportunity for young people to broaden their social circle and opportunities. It can also increase awareness and appreciation of two languages and cultures as well as broadening horizons by increasing understanding and appreciations of other languages. Research also shows that bilingual skills can improve employability as more and more workplaces across Wales seek to appoint bilingual staff.

The 2011 Census figures show that some 43,651 16-19 year olds in Wales are able to speak Welsh. The Welsh Government published the Welsh language Strategy A living language: language for living for 2012-17 which highlights that children and young people have a vital role to play in securing the future of the Welsh language.

It also highlights that the provision of Welsh medium social opportunities for children and young people needs to be increased. Making use of social activities through the medium of Welsh enriches and supports young people’s language skills. There are numerous organisations across Wales who offer exciting opportunities for young people to use the Welsh language outside school including, sports, music, drama, arts and outdoor pursuits. Organisations such as Urdd Gobaith Cymru, the Mentrau Iaith, Young Farmers Clubs, Duke of Edinburgh Award offer thousands of young people in Wales opportunities to socialise, learn new skills and make new friends through the medium of Welsh.

Links
Urdd
DofE
Mentrau Iaith

You are of course welcome to your views - even if they trample on others' rights and even if you dismiss us 'other' Welsh people and the language as a bit of a pointless nuisance.

When tolerance exits tyranny enters - check history - so its probably best to just accommodate your countrymen of all shapes and sizes. Less isn't more.

And finally for you to want to deny kids their birthright and a huge slice of their culture as you don't value it is rather unfair. I delight in my two little kids having a language skill that we were denied; that it is SO easy for them is utterly unbelievable. Their lives are fuller because of this and so is mine. Their language gaining skills are so enhanced and their world perspective is broader and more tolerant - even at this young age. Its lovely and its an asset for life.

The author of this article is not trying to "trample on others' rights", mai penrai. SoSeriousRightNow said "let it die", which is very different than arguing to actively abolish or criminalise the language. And I agree with the line "If we had been determined to preserve medieval culture and beliefs then the country would never have moved on".
At the top of this article is a link to the Welsh translation of this article. Take a look at how many Welsh comments are on there. Better yet: navigate around the entire Welsh side of the site... how many Welsh comments do you see?

While I can't speak for the whole of the country, in the South Welsh certainly seems to be a dying language and I would wager that if you stopped random people in the streets of Cardiff and showed them this article, most would agree with it.

I see the Welsh language as a loveable grandparent, or the Vulcan pub... great in its day, and something which has made an impact on our culture, but trying to prevent the inevitable by enforcing policy or getting overly defensive is only going to delay the inevitable.

I might be quite wrong - the Welsh language might see a great revival - but if so it will come about from people choosing to speak it, not ganging up on those who don't.

I agree with a lot of what you say - but not the passivity. A great and pre-meditated disservice was done to the Welsh language for decades - an active policy of discrimination and eradication (Blue Books, Welsh Not, no parity such as no Welsh on roadsigns, in shops etc...). Don't think we are in this situation where it sometimes now receives positive measures (that many dislike) by accident - it is all by design. It is right too.

I'm pretty happy with the situation to be honest with you as Welsh is now included, a fair option and people elect to choose it of their free will. If you quietly see it as medieval and pointless and not for you our your kids that is absolutely fine; I will however always challenge bigotry, marginalisation, exclusion and intolerance whenever a naturally and historically existent language/culture/skin colour is someone else's big issue.

JazzHands

Commented 34 months ago - 17th July 2013 - 15:13pm

@mai penrai but young people (like the author) don't elect to choose it of their free will, it's a compulsory GCSE in Wales.

I think learning a language other than English is important but shouldn't we be encouraging people to look beyond our borders and learn world languages such as Spanish, Arabic or Mandarin? If we ever look to attain independence then being able to speak with the world will be far more useful in supporting such a small nation than one we can only speak to ourselves in.

I think in English-medium schools, Welsh should be compulsory up to year 9 and then among a number of options for a compulsory GCSE in a language other than English.

I too had to learn many subjects I disliked in school and, at the time, found utterly totally pointless. Maybe that's why they don't teach Latin anymore - but they did not so long ago and I'd venture that was far less useful than even Welsh in Wales! That doesn't make compulsion right of course which is why I'm happy to have the debate.

As a polyglot I also broadly agree with your final suggestion, that is unless you are going to live in Welsh speaking heartlands where you should be requested to make a bit more of an effort and not expect the world to conform to your needs and view and sole language - it only takes one Englishman in a room of 50 Welsh people having a meeting in Welsh to have to immediately give up their language (or face the furore about being 'ignorant' - yes really...) .

For the 0.001% of Welsh society that might end up selling to the Chinese learn Mandarin by all means! All languages are good but it is preferable that people choose to engage with them (as many do with Welsh now its at long last included; an option; a choice). Me, personally, if you don't get it, like it or value it - its totally wasted on you so a waste of time..go do cookery instead! So we agree :-)

sean123

Commented 12 months ago - 7th May 2015 - 19:03pm

Totally agree with you m8, Welsh is boring, not useful and we do not need it. Anyone who speaks Welsh also speaks English so what is the point in having it on sign posts and all of that rubbish? Check out my article on why we don't need Welsh! I don't care if it part of the heritage of Wales as there is no point in it. If someone wants to speak Welsh they can learn it independently because it is a very hard language and you basically have to learn every sentence to speak the language! Great article and totally true!